The following post is barely blog worthy but it's something that's been on my mind a couple of weeks now. Recently I've had a couple of conversations with friends Kayla and Brianne on the merits of the TV shows The Office and Arrested Development. Said conversations have usually ended with the declaration of my preference of Arrested Development over The Office, or with Kayla or Brianne stating the opposite. While I don't feel a need to defend my preference, I might just be bored enough to blog about it.
Why Arrested Development Is Better Than The Office
By Myke Lewis Olsen
First, you just can't beat the cast. The Office has Rainn Wilson and Steve Carrell. John Krasinski is pretty good. Ed Helms is OK; we'll throw him in there for the sake of giving The Office a fighting chance. But really, Rainn and Steve carry most of the weight for The Office, and on their own they're fabulous, hilarious actors. But pit them against the combined strength of Michael Cera, Jason Bateman, Will Arnett, David Cross, Tony Hale, and Jeffrey Tambor and they really stand no chance. And this is without considering Jessica Walter and Portia de Rossi.
What about the secondary cast members? The Office does have Creed Bratton, I'll give them that; anything this guy says is hilarious. And sure, the actors that play Kevin, Phyllis, and Toby do a great job. However, how can you top Henry "The Fonz" Winkler as Barry Zuckerkorn? You just can't.
Barry: So, basically, you’re about 2,000 shares short of being the majority stockholders. Now, unfortunately, it’s a private stock, so you cannot just buy up the shares unless someone is willing to sell.
Michael: Are you sure?
Barry: That’s what they said on “Ask Jeeves.”
To finish off with the cast, let's play the trump card: Ron Howard as AD's narrator.
One thing that The Office and AD have in common is their 'reality TV' feel. For The Office, seasons one and two set a precedent that hasn't been matched in the following seasons. The thing that I enjoyed about the first two seasons -- especially season two -- is that it seemed pretty realistic. Sure there were moments of outrageousness -- after all, we're talking about TV here -- but for the most part, you felt like most of this stuff could actually happen in your office. The show was relatable. Then season three of The Office rolls around, and they immediately shy away from relatability. From the very first episode, when Michael kisses Oscar after finding out Oscar is gay -- sure, it's funny, but c'mon, what happened to relatability?
Again, AD has the advantage because the show never set the precedent of relatability in its first season. As seasons progressed so did outrageousness. However, AD never claimed the pretense of parodying reality the way The Office did in seasons one and two.
Is anyone else as sick of the inter-Office incest as I am? The Jim and Pam thing was cute in season two. It was funny when Michael made out with Jan. Then Dwight hooks up with Angela. Ryan and Kelly date (although to the show's credit, Kelly is pretty funny in how she tries to get Ryan back after they break up). Jim dates Karen (who, BTdubs, is way hotter and more likable than Pam) Angela dumps Dwight. Phyllis marries Bob Vance. Jan and Michael finally hook up. Jim and Pam finally hook up. Angela gets engaged to Andy. Jim and Pam get boring because they are dating and happy together and even when there is any kind of dynamic in their relationship you know that they're still perfect for each other and will always be together and them breaking up would be more suicidal for the show than them hooking up. Jan and Michael break up. Angela cheats on Andy with Dwight. Andy and Angela break up. By the looks of the season five finale, it's pretty obvious that Dwight and Angela will get back together. And because Jim and Pam are boring now, we're to assume because of Jim's elation at the end of the same episode that Pam is prego (I still don't care). I mean, really, do these people have no contact with the outside world? Are suitable mates only to be found in one's working environment? (If that's the case, I'm in big trouble.)
In contrast, how hilarious are George Michael and Anne ("Her?")? Buster and Lucille II (Liza Minnelli, another credit to AD's cast)? Even better, what about George Michael and Maeby? Tobias and Carl Weathers (just kidding)? But really, who was dating who was never a main focus of AD and it seemed to do wonders for the show.
Speaking of Carl Weathers and Liza Minnelli, I don't think a show has had better cameos than AD. Zach Braff, Ben Stiller, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Scott Baio, Justine Bateman, Amy Poelher... oh yeah, Charlize Theron? (It's really too bad they never pulled the Andy Griffith stunt in season three.) The Office had that one episode with Jack Black and Jessica Alba but it was somewhat disappointing because they didn't even interact with the actual characters. Granted, Tim Meadows in "The Client" episode was pretty hilarious.
Finally, AD rewarded it's loyal viewers like no other show has. One of my favorite aspects of this show is how so many of the jokes tie back to a previous episode. It makes repeat viewings as enjoyable as watching it for the first time.
If it sounds like I'm biased it's because I am: Arrested Development is a better TV show. Seasons of The Office are like Weezer albums: the first two are incredible, the follow ups have their high points, but they just can't capture that initial magic.
Rebuttals?
Well done, Myke. The comparison of seasons of The Office to Weezer albums was brilliant and something I had never even considered before. All though I do prefer season 3 to the green album. There were some of the most hilarious episodes despite the lack of relatability.
ReplyDeleteOh Myke, Myke, Myke…
ReplyDeleteWhile I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I do feel it necessary to let you know why you are wrong.
1. Because I said so. That’s the most important one and you need to keep it in mind. But…since most people won’t accept that I’ll continue. The rest of my reasons aren’t in any order of importance.
2. The Office stands on it’s own merits and doesn’t need a bunch of celebrity cameos to draw viewers. It’s characters are important enough to the viewers that we don’t think, gee, I sure wish they’d introduce somebody new so the show can be more interesting.
3. Arrested Development is very funny, don’t get me wrong, I do like the show. And it is clever in the way that it makes bold and ridiculous jokes. But, by the way, anyone can make bold and ridiculous jokes. It doesn’t take an ingenious writer to think of something for that show. Just write a bunch of gibberish and we’ll laugh. It’s funny. The Office, however, has some of the most clever writing I’ve seen. How they come up with this stuff I don’t know, but I never get tired of it.
Andy: And then I will say something positive like, 'kudos!' Or 'job well done!'
Jim: Or zippity do da.
Andy: I can't tell if he's mocking me.
Dwight: Just ignore him.
Andy: I can't do that. It's really hard for me to let things go.
Jim: I was mocking you.
Andy: Thank you.
Dwight: [to Angela] I just wanna be friends. Plus a little extra. Also, I love you.
Michael: Yeah, Ryan snapped at me. But there was this twinkle in his eye that I picked up on which said, "Dude, we're friends. I'm doing this for appearances. I am the big boss now. And I have to seem like an ogre. But you know me and you trust me. And we like each other. And we'll always be friends. And I would never take you for granted in a million years. And I miss you, man. And I love you." His words.
4. I’ll stop with that now and move on…The fact that Arrested Development has only had 3 seasons and The Office is about to have it’s sixth season premier should be saying something. The amount of viewers that watched Arrested Development went down as the series went on, leading to it’s cancellation. The Office viewers and ranking has only gone up. (I’ve done my research) Now, I know what you’re thinking Myke, that that only proves that most people didn’t understand Arrested Development or appreciate it for it’s hilarity and intelligence. That’s probably true, but when I like a show, I want to keep watching it. I don’t want it cancelled. Lame.
So anyhoo, I’m officially done defending the office, mostly because I’m bored of this debate and now I just want to watch the office. You’re entitled to your opinion, and you’re entitled to call us out in a public forum. But just know, that while I do enjoy Arrested Development, I’ll always have a soft place in my heart for The Office.
Part 1:
ReplyDeleteBoth Brianne and I had some strong reactions to this blog. We debated whether or not we should combine our rebuttal or to write them separately. The verdict…we wrote separate ones. One for each one of your balls. It is my duty as an Office fanatic to defend against this blasphemy!
As Myke belligerently stated: "First, you just can't beat the cast. The Office has Rainn Wilson and Steve Carrell. John Krasinski is pretty good. Ed Helms is OK; we'll throw him in there for the sake of giving The Office a fighting chance. But really, Rainn and Steve carry most of the weight for The Office, and on their own they're fabulous, hilarious actors. But pit them against the combined strength of Michael Cera, Jason Bateman, Will Arnett, David Cross, Tony Hale, and Jeffrey Tambor and they really stand no chance. And this is without considering Jessica Walter and Portia de Rossi."
Although I completely agree that the cast members in AD are absolutely amazing, I feel the cast members in the Office are completely ingenious and even more amazing than those in AD. I can always count on Dwight’s (Rainn Wilson) random acts of heroism and sense of superiority towards his other marvelous cast members to make me laugh. Not to mention, Michael’s (Steve Carrell) fantastic one liners! Michael Scott: “It’s not like booze ever killed anyone.” or the infamous “That’s what she said...” I have based my life around the “That’s what she said” joke.
Myke's even more belligerent comments: "What about the secondary cast members? The Office does have Creed Bratton, I'll give them that; anything this guy says is hilarious. And sure, the actors that play Kevin, Phyllis, and Toby do a great job. However, how can you top Henry "The Fonz" Winkler as Barry Zuckerkorn? You just can't"
Well, guess what, he has just been topped. You said it yourself; the Office has Creed Bratton. That alone is enough to beat Barry Zuckerkorn. Even if he was, at one time, “The Fonz”.
[During a talking heads segment about Jan's Boob job]
Meredith Palmer: I would never do that. Waste of money. In my experience, guys are way more attracted to the back of you than to the front.
Kevin Malone: I love fake boobs. Often times you find them on strippers.
Creed Bratton: I find it offensive. Au naturelle, baby. That's how I like them. Swing low, sweet chariots.
Quotes from AD:
Barry: So, basically, you’re about 2,000 shares short of being the majority stockholders. Now, unfortunately, it’s a private stock, so you cannot just buy up the shares unless someone is willing to sell.
Michael: Are you sure?
Barry: That’s what they said on “Ask Jeeves.”
What about Todd Packer, played by David Koechner?? His infrequent visits set the tone for the awkwardness that is the Office!
Part 2:
ReplyDeleteComments continued: "To finish off with the cast, let's play the trump card: Ron Howard as AD's narrator."
The Office is so good that they don’t need a narrator to be funny.
I also just want to point out that you have no argument as to why these cast members are better. You simply threw out names and expected your readers to understand based on no real proof? Come on, Myke, you expect that to fly?
Will Myke ever shut up?: "One thing that The Office and AD have in common is their 'reality TV' feel. For The Office, seasons one and two set a precedent that hasn't been matched in the following seasons. The thing that I enjoyed about the first two seasons -- especially season two -- is that they seemed pretty realistic. Sure there were moments of outrageousness -- after all, we're talking about TV here -- but for the most part, you felt like most of this stuff could actually happen in your office. The show was relatable. Then season three of The Office rolls around, and they immediately shy away from relatability. From the very first episode, when Michael kisses Oscar after finding out Oscar is gay -- sure, it's funny, but c'mon, what happened to relatability?"
From the beginning, I have been able to relate to the Office in so many ways and I continue to do so up until the last aired episode. I’m not saying that I have experienced everything that has occurred in each episode, but I have had many similar situations. As outrageous as some of it may be, and even if it hasn’t transpired in my own life, it doesn’t seem far fetched for it to happen in the show. You get to know the characters as real people. Considering Michael’s personality and things he has done in the past, it is absolutely not hard to imagine him kissing Oscar or accidently buying and wearing women’s clothing for that matter. It’s all relative to the characters in the show.
Part 3:
ReplyDeleteStill more: "Again, AD has the advantage because the show never set the precedent of relatability in its first season. As seasons progressed so did outrageousness. However, AD never claimed the pretense of parodying reality the way The Office did in seasons one and two."
Maybe the fact that AD never set the precedence of relatability, is the main reason why the show, as unfortunate as it is, came to an end. People like to watch shows they can relate to. Especially if it brings humor to our all too drab reality.
Nobody cares: "Is anyone else as sick of the inter-Office incest as I am? The Jim and Pam thing was cute in season two. It was funny when Michael made out with Jan. Then Dwight hooks up with Angela. Ryan and Kelly date (although to the show's credit, Kelly is pretty funny in how she tries to get Ryan back after they break up). Jim dates Karen (who, BTdubs, is way hotter and more likable than Pam) Angela dumps Dwight. Phyllis marries Bob Vance. Jan and Michael finally hook up. Jim and Pam finally hook up. Angela gets engaged to Andy. Jim and Pam get boring because they are dating and happy together and even when there is any kind of dynamic in their relationship you know that they're still perfect for each other and will always be together and them breaking up would be more suicidal for the show than them hooking up. Jan and Michael break up. Angela cheats on Andy with Dwight. Andy and Angela break up. By the looks of the season five finale, it's pretty obvious that Dwight and Angela will get back together. And because Jim and Pam are boring now, we're to assume because of Jim's elation that Pam is prego (I still don't care). I mean, really, do these people have no contact with the outside world? Are suitable mates only to be found in one's working environment? (If that's the case, I'm in big trouble.)
In contrast, how hilarious are George Michael and Anne ("Her?")? Buster and Lucille II (Liza Minnelli, another credit to AD's cast)? Even better, what about George Michael and Maeby? Tobias and Carl Weathers (just kidding)? But really, who was dating who was never a main focus of AD and seemed to do wonders for the show."
I would like to just point out that inter-office incest is much better than actual incest. There have been several incestuous relationships on AD, which I guess is fine if you’re into that sort of thing, Myke. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy watching George Michael and Maeby and even Steve Holt in their love triangle just as much as the next girl, but I just don’t understand how that is more entertaining than the love triangle between Dwight, Angela and Andy on the Office. Did Steve Holt ever corner George Michael against a concrete wall to fight for Maeby? The answer, my friend, is no. But guess who did. The phenomenal cast members on the Office did. The only relationship that was ever really a main focus on the show was Jim and Pam’s. Every show needs a little drama and I feel that their relationship added to it perfectly. As far as your comment about Karen being hotter and more likable than Pam, how dare you?! Karen may be hotter, but she is absolutely not more likable than Pam. She is probably the one character on the Office that I dislike. She is annoying, needy and her jokes/pranks are not creative or funny. Pam is definitely a much better fit for Jim and a better character all around. Jim and Pam’s relationship is not boring. It is just taking a different turn and I am excited to see what happens with it. Dwight and Angela’s relationship is hilarious, as is Kelly and Ryan’s! Kelly Kapoor: “If I get to stay, and Ryan is laid off, I will kill myself. Like Romeo and Juliet. The Claire Danes one.”
Part 4:
ReplyDeleteMyke's non-coherent thoughts: "Speaking of Carl Weathers and Liza Minnelli, I don't think a show has had better cameos than AD. Zach Braff, Ben Stiller, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Scott Baio, Justine Bateman, Amy Poelher... oh yeah, Charlize Theron? (It's really too bad they never pulled the Andy Griffith stunt in season three.) The Office had that one episode with Jack Black and Jessica Alba but it was somewhat disappointing because they didn't even interact with the actual characters. Granted, Tim Meadows in "The Client" episode was pretty hilarious."
The reason AD had so many cameos, is to promote the show and raise the ratings. The Office is self-sustaining without having to bring in random famous people. Yes, The Client episode was hilarious. Michael Scott: “Awesome Blossom, extra awesome.”
Finally, it's about time: "Finally, AD rewarded it's loyal viewers like no other show has. One of my favorite aspects of this show is how so many of the jokes tie back to a previous episode. It makes repeat viewings as enjoyable as watching it for the first time.
If it sounds like I'm biased it's because I am: Arrested Development is a better TV show. Seasons of The Office are like Weezer albums: the first two are incredible, the follow ups have their high points, but they just can't capture that initial magic."
I completely disagree with this statement. The Office has continued to time and time again create one of a kind episodes. AD is like a one hit wonder. They only lasted three seasons and the office just completed it’s fifth and is still going strong! Long live the Office!
Respectfully,
Kayla
Wow ladies, I don't know where to start.
ReplyDelete(By the way, thanks Quinn.)
Brianne's argument, "Because I said so." Really?
First, I included the cameo argument as a testament to the show's credibility. AD's main cast carried the show much farther than any of the cameos did.
"Arrested Development is very funny, don’t get me wrong, I do like the show. And it is clever in the way that it makes bold and ridiculous jokes. But, by the way, anyone can make bold and ridiculous jokes." If just 'anyone' can make bold and ridiculous jokes (which The Office does as much as AD, thank you Michael Gary Scott), then why did you say that AD is clever in the way that it does so? Clever seems to imply that the jokes go above what just 'anyone' might do.
AD is just as clever as The Office, if not more so because the humor is more subtle. A lot of the sutblty is attributable to the inter-season jokes (which explains why the ratings went down as the show progressed even though the show got better). GOB's chatch phrases, references to prior episodes, recurring gags like the corn-baller and J. Walter Weatherman, references to the show's competitors, the chicken dance are all examples of things that casual viewers won't understand and are in themselves a clever way of rewarding long-time viewers and those who followed the show's politics. Of course you catch things you missed with repeat viewings of The Office; but there's simply more to catch with AD because it's so well tied together.
Kayla, first, you stole my word, 'belligerent.'
ReplyDelete"I also just want to point out that you have no argument as to why these cast members are better. You simply threw out names and expected your readers to understand based on no real proof? Come on, Myke, you expect that to fly?"
You kinda did the same thing. Yes, you gave examples of Michael and Dwight's endearing qualities and included quotes from The Office, but you're essentially saying why you like them. The only thing missing from my assertion is why I like them. Secondly, I was comparing cast members not characters. By that I mean I'm more likely to go see -- and enjoy (with the exception of Year One) -- other work by the AD cast members than by members of The Office cast.
I'm still all about Winkler. Creed's great (I'm definitely not talking about the band here), but he's no Barry Zuckerkorn.
If you wanna compare characters AD still wins. As far as major characters go, the only real powerhouses you brought up were Michael and Dwight, and I'll agree with you there. Jim has his moments as well, but they're usually associated with Dwight or Pam, which makes me wonder how great Jim would be without them. So depending on the episode, you have 2 to 3, maybe power 4 characters. Let's look at AD's consistently funny power characters. Michael Bluth is kinda like Jim... how funny would he be without the rest of the cast? Like Jim, Michael's more a likeable character. George Michael, GOB, Lucille, George Sr., Tobias, Buster, and sometimes even Maeby and Lindsay are just as funny as Dwight and Michael, and oftentimes, even more so.
Relatability is relative. The tone of The Office has changed since season three, and while it still has it's moments -- like Princess Leia's opinion of Han Solo -- they're few and far between, at least in comparison to its second season and all of those of AD.
"Nobody cares: 'Is anyone else as sick of the inter-Office incest as I am?'" I care, Kayla. I care. My brother and I discuss this constantly and it's one of the biggest drawbacks of the show today.
"I would like to just point out that inter-office incest is much better than actual incest." Is it? The George Michael-Maeby-Steve Holt triangle was great because it's so out of the blue. Any TV show or movie will have the relationship factor, but apart from Les Cousins Dangereux, the cousins-in-love bit has never been done so well.
"AD is like a one hit wonder." So that makes Arrested Development as good as "Tubthumper" by Chumbawamba? I don't see how you could say that, especially as someone who claims to enjoy the show. As Lucille Bluth might say, "I don't understand it and I won't respond to it."
But Brianne did bring up the issue of the show's longevity... I find that argument to be irrelevant. Just because hordes of people didn't like it didn't mean it wasn't better than The Office.
Finally, these arguments -- mine and yours -- boil down to nothing but opinion. You're welcome to disect further, I just don't know if I have much else to say than this:
Better Characters + Better Writing = Better Show
Yours, truly belligerent,
Myke
First of all, I would like to congratulate you on creating the English language. Second of all, I would like to apologize for my apparent illegal use of the word “belligerent”. It won’t happen again. So, I did start to dissect each and every section you rebutted (and they were good arguments too). However, you are right; it does just come down to our opinions. You have some valid points, some, not many, but some. I think AD is a fantastic show and it is near and dear to my heart. Still, I am a dedicated fan of the Office and nothing, not even AD, can come close. Regardless of how you argue it or try to validate it, the characters in the Office are more developed and clever than those in AD. The simple fact is, better characters + better writing = better show = the Office. Thank you for that.
ReplyDeleteForever humble,
Kayla, The Victor
I don't comment twice on a post much, but I really enjoy the debate taking place here. Here's my opinion:
ReplyDeleteI think the tenure of Arrested Development actually worked to its advantage. They knew they were going under in Season 3 so they pulled out all the stops resulting in some outrageous hilarity.
The Office has attracted a larger audience and has had to adjust for that.
I remember the first episode I saw of The Office was "Dwight's speech" in season 2. Funny episode IF you are already familiar with the characters (similar to Arrested Development)
I didn't really understand it so I went back and watched all of Season 1 and 2 up to that point and suddenly every episode of The Office was funny.
After Season 2 The Office was so big that they had to make each episode easier to understand for first time viewers.
After Season 3 I think it was just hard to consistently come up with funny original episodes.
There are still some great episodes (I nearly wet myself watching The Golden Ticket this last season) but there's only so much you can do with the same characters living and working in the same place.
arrested development all the way. it holds a special place in my heart. i remember watching it the very first season with my sister and brother-in-law when i was living at their house senior year of high school. i'm pretty sure it bonded us together. (well that and the OC which also made its debut that year). when i think of the office i just remember how it was taken from the British version which is supposedly funnier. (i wouldn't know though because i really struggle on understanding their accents on that one).
ReplyDeleteMyke, wow. Quite the little post war. I hope everyone can remain friends afterward.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I also loved the Weezer reference.
Second, I like both shows. The Office was more life-like early on, and AD is quirky and witty, but also ultimately the same show every episode.
My beef with the Office: It is taking itself too seriously. I liked it more when it was just about how people treated each other at work, and less about their entangled romances. The Pam/Jim thing was better when they weren't so cutesy, but their union was inevitable. How long can you keep one element going before it gets old?
Which brings me to AD. I haven't watched all three seasons. I'm halfway through 2, but it's still the same story. George Sr. going or not going to jail and the failing Bluth company. It's built on one major conflict that ultimately must end.
In other news the solution is Better Off Ted, a quirky office comedy with the surrealism of AD, boss issues of the Office and Portia de Rossi as a lead character.
Watch and be happy.
http://www.comboutique.com/shop/t-shirt-how_to_imitate_a_chicken-4360-341062.html
ReplyDeletewhat does it say about me that I read all this and think
ReplyDelete"aw, it seems like myke has met some fun new friends!"
I have no fire left. that, and I have only seen about three episodes of AD, rendering my opinion invalid.